Did Jesus Pray With His Disciples

41

Upon examination of Scripture, do we find any instance of Jesus praying with his disciples? Or, do we find him abstaining from praying with them.

At Matthew 6:5 notice what Jesus says with regard to prayer:

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.  But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Did Jesus practice what he taught? Notice the following Scripture at Matthew 26:36:

Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.”

So yes, Jesus did practice what he preached. He could have said to his disciples who were with him, “Let us pray” but he did not. He said, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.”

So prayer was to be a private matter between the individual and God, not a collective or group of people and God. 

Even when we pray for one another, we are to do so as an individual in private to our Father in heaven. No other human should be present when you are in prayer to your Father in heaven.

Failure to do this makes one “like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others.” Notice the reference to standing in the synagogues. What can one reference this to today? Being within the Churches praying! Even though one may be within a building, there are other people present when all pray together. This is public and improper and is in opposition to what Jesus taught.

What about the Lord’s evening meal (celebration of the Passover) with his disciples on the night before his death in Luke Chapter 22? Notice how Luke 22:19-20 reads:

And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me. In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

The expression gave thanks is not the same as saying a prayer. Typically before most persons today even touch the meal in front of them they say a prayer first and then the touch the food. Here, we see Jesus first taking the bread and then give thanks (assuming he was saying a prayer).

Additionally, if Jesus prayed after he took the bread what did he pray about? Why would the Bible writer leave the details of that prayer out?

The reason is because the expression gave thanks is not Jesus saying a prayer. It is Jesus blessing the bread in what it stood for, his precious body that would be broken for us all. Breaking the bread denotes to us the manner of Christ’s death, for although his legs were not broken, as the thieves legs were, his body was very severely tormented, and torn, and bruised.

By partaking in the eating of the bread, the disciples would be blessed because in a figurative sense, Jesus will always be a part of them and he in them.

So Luke 22:19-20 does not have Jesus praying with his disciples. Jesus taught them the proper manner of prayer: that for each of them, it was a private matter between their heavenly Father just as it was a private matter for him.

Jesus would not have said what he said at Matthew 6:5 and go back on it and engage in group prayer with his disciples or anyone else.

So why do so many people pray together as a church group or a family? Because that is what men teach them to do.  Jesus’ teachings have been so badly distorted and even ignored by those claiming to believe in him, that when someone – such as myself – show from Scripture that to engage in public or group prayer is hypocritical as Jesus stated, they take offense at it and view you as someone who does not know what they are talking about. The information is unpalatable and something they are not accustomed to hearing. Few ever come to realize that the truth has never been easy to accept and digest into one’s marrow. The world spews out like something nasty in their mouths, the truth.

Given that we live in a world controlled by Satan, it really should not be surprising that such a thing takes place on a very wide scale. Satan wants the inhabitants of the earth to be against or “anti” to Christs teachings.

Many of Satan’s ministers are persons who stand behind the pulpit leading (misleading) persons to do what Jesus said that they are not to do.

The situation is such today that public prayer and group prayer within the household and with the churches is so deeply rooted, that when someone comes forth and shows that Jesus did not teach this, they defend the thing that Jesus did not teach and look at you like there is something wrong with you.

Yet, what is comforting to know is that Jesus told us the proper manner in which we are to pray (Matthew 6:6) and he himself led by example and practiced what he taught others with regard to prayer. (Matthew 26:36)

Those who engage in public prayer – yes, saying a prayer over a meal in a public restaurant,  sporting events, in church or engaging in group prayer – is not following the pattern Jesus taught. Prayer is to be in private, in secret, and it is a matter between you alone and your Father in heaven.

If there are many believers and you wish to pray for a thing or about a matter, each of you should approach the Father in private and pray, not collectively as a group.

My advice is to take courage and not be in fear of men or the persons who say that it is OK to pray as a group or in public in full view of everyone observing. Listen to Jesus as The Most High God directed us to; and Jesus says if you pray in public and even within the synagogues, you follow the course of a hypocrite and not that of a person who fears God so as to obey him and listen to his Son.

This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him. (Luke 9:35)

Are you listening to him or men?

R. Jerome Harris

A Disciple of Christ in the strictest sense. I belong to no religious organization. I view Christ as my only Head, Master, Teacher, Owner, and Lord. (John 8:31-32, 1Cor 11:3) His God is my God and I champion his teachings above anything issuing out of ANY religious organization.

More Posts - Website

41 Comments

  1. Recently a reader of the above article emailed me and wrote (not sure why s/he did not post here so that all can see and weigh in on it:

    “Hello sir. I was on your website and saw the heading concerning Jesus praying with His disciples. While it is true that Jesus did not always pray when they were present, if you read John chapters 16-17, you will find that chapter 17 is a prayer Jesus prayed to the Father while his disciples were present. You make very interesting points, but be sure that you put line upon line and precept upon precept. Your fellow believer in Christ.” VB

    My response was as follows:

    I am sorry, I did not say that “Jesus did not ALWAYS pray when they were present,” I said that he NEVER prayed WITH them and always withdrew to a private place to pray to his Father.

    There is nothing in John Chapter 16 that shows Jesus praying praying to his Father in heaven his disciples were present. Please show in John Chapter 16 where Jesus is praying to the Father period?

    With regard John 17, yes Jesus is praying to the Father. Yet, what shows that Jesus is praying to the Father with the disciples present? This is an assumption. It breaks with (1) The pattern in Scripture that we NEVER read of Jesus praying with his disciples and (2) what Jesus himself spoke regarding praying NOT as the hypocrites do and withdrawing to a private place to pray at Matthew 6:5-6.

    I know what mainstream and religious organizations say, but we cannot lift out of Scripture what is not there. We cannot say that Jesus spoke of praying in “private” and then at the same time violate what he himself taught and engaged in “group” prayer. We simply do not see this in Scripture. What we DO see is that Jesus did withdraw away from his disciples to pray to his Father in private.

    Even in John Chapter 17 – when it is read – it does not say that Jesus’ disciples “raised their eyes to heaven” or “bowed their heads” in prayer. It says that Jesus did. In other words, it was Jesus’ private prayer to his Father in heaven.

    If one could find pattern after pattern or example after example in Scripture where Jesus prayed with his disciples, I would have no problem with it. But that is not what we find.

    As disciples of Christ, we are to obey what Jesus himself spoke at Matthew 6:5-6 and not be in fear of man and what he does in spite of what Jesus taught us regarding prayer.

    It boils down to listening to Jesus [the] Christ who says to no pray as the hypocrites do or listening to men who say it is OK to pray without entering into your (not our) private room (privately) to pray. (Luke 9:35)

    Regards,

    R. Jerome Harris

    Notice how some subtly attempt to re-word what I did not say. I do believe that is not always intentional but is a part of the strong indoctrination within the religious system called Christianity. This is done because of a “preference” to believe what “it” says and teaches as opposed to what Jesus taught.

    Notice too, how elements within Christianity desire to superimpose themselves as an authority over what I write as if I am in error and they are not. Telling me to make sure when I write to do it this way or that way. Yet, they generalize about John Chapter 16 about Jesus praying but do not show where in John 16 Jesus is praying. I find this disturbing as it implies a “believe as we say” mentality. while they will deny this is their agenda. Not to accept what mainstream Christianity teaches, or what religious organization teaches, will elicit such responses. They do not like it when they are challenged or questioned.

    John Chapter 16 and 17 are summarily offered as proof that Jesus did pray with his disciples. John Chapter 16 does not have Jesus praying at all. John Chapter 17 does have Jesus praying, but a careful reading of it does not show Jesus leading his disciples in prayer. It shows Jesus himself turning his eyes towards heaven and praying to his Father. We do not read anywhere in John 17 of the disciples looking up into heaven or bowing their heads or even saying an “amen” after Jesus concludes his prayer.

    The transition from John Chapter 16 into John Chapter 17 would make it appear that Jesus prayed with his disciples present. But Jesus would not have done that after teaching about withdrawing to a private place to pray at Matthew 6:5-6.

    For Jesus to violate what he taught others regarding prayer would make him a hypocrite and bad example as a teacher. Jesus was not a hypocrite and was a great example.

    It is obvious that Jesus did withdraw away from his disciples to pray to his Father in private as he did on another occasion at Matthew 26:36. Such was his pattern.

    We – who are his disciples – cannot say that he SOMETIMES did and he SOMETIMES did not. This is being unsure and introducing vagueness into what Jesus taught and did. The Scriptural pattern is that Jesus NEVER prayed with his disciples or anyone else.

    Dear reader and those desiring to become disciples of Christ (taught by him), please, please cling to the person of Christ and listen to what he says and not what religious organization (by any name) tells you. Apply what is mentioned at 1 John 4:1 with regard believing “every inspired expression” but putting those expressions to the test to see if they are from God.

    The agenda by religious organization is to control what you think and believe and to subtly steer you away from what the Master Jesus [the] Christ taught. One method in doing this is to use Jesus’ name and speak of him and his teachings. But upon closer examination two things are discovered: (1) Christianity will teach things Jesus never taught but will lead you (mislead you) to believe that he taught them and (2) draw you into what they (Christianity) teach “as if” what they teach is from God. The end result is you will find yourself in opposition to what Jesus taught because you will have cultivated a preference to what “Christianity” teaches.

    Jesus did not tell us to go into organizations. He told us to come to him – the person – and be “his” disciples, to be instructed by him. (John 8:31-32)

    Listen to Jesus [the] Christ and follow his example or listen to what men and what religious organization sell you and indoctrinate you with? (Luke 9:35)

    • Jesus’ prayer to the Father in John 17 was witnessed at least by John who recorded it later. I doubt Jesus had time or inclination to repeat to the disciples later what he prayed as He went to the garden and then the Cross after this and probably did not have the luxury to time to convey this prayer to be recorded later. Earlier there is an instance when raising Lazarus from the dead that he openly prayed to the Father for the benefit of those standing by so that they would “believe that thou didst send me”, John 11:42

      In John 12:28 Jesus has another brief prayer in the presence of Philip and Andrew when He said, “Father, glorify thy name.” And from the response that followed we know the Father heard Him.

      Of course we also have the open prayer on the Cross, “Father forgive them; for they know not what they do.” Luke 23:34
      Even so, I don’t see any instance where Jesus prayed “with” anyone or alongside in community with anyone like we do today. Who could chime in to add to His prayers!?

      Blessings
      Scott

      • Again, you counter (oppose) what Jesus himself taught his disciples and us concerning prayer. Consider Matthew 6:5-6:

        “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.”

        Jesus practiced what he preached. His prayers were not “public.” He would either withdraw to a “private” place to pray or his prayers were to himself between himself and his Father in heaven. They were not “public.” (Matthew 14:23, Luke 9:18, Mark 6:46, Luke 6:12)

        Jesus would not have taught this and then violated his own teaching and not set the example.

        Concerning is cry to the Father to forgive his persecutors and executioners: Why do YOU say Jesus was praying. Luke 23:34 does not say he was praying. It says he was “saying.”

        I find it most curious how Jesus says or teaches one thing and many of you find ways – actually look for ways – to counter and say and teach the opposite of what he taught.

        Jesus teaches that if you pray in “public” to be heard by others, you are a hypocrite. You prayers to God are not for me or others to hear; they are between you and your Father in heaven.

        Only the devil would tempt someone to do what Jesus said we are not to do. That is the “spirit” of antichrist.

        • David Swannick on

          Dear Reverend Harris, your teaching here would suggest you believe it is unbiblical for Christians to pray together. Although I acknowledge that the Bible does not state that Jesus prayer with his disciples I cannot believe that to pray with others is unbiblical and I give the following examples for your consideration.
          1. Matthew 18:19-20 – King James Version
          19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
          20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
          I believe the words ‘that they shall ask’ means prayer and that Jesus is referring to asking the Father together in prayer – for that is how we talk to God.
          There are other examples in the New Testament of the early church meeting for prayer
          2. Acts 1:14, Acts 2:42, Acts 12:5, Acts 12:12 – are you suggesting that these men through whom the Gospel message has spread throughout the world are in contradiction to the Lord’s teaching?
          David Swannick, Formby, Liverpool UK

          • I am not a reverend. I shun such man-made titles. I am simply a disciple of Christ. (John 8:31-32) Neither did Jesus ever tell his followers to be called “Christians.” I do not believe that this is “my” teaching. Respectfully your reference “It is unbiblical for Christians to pray together” highlights much of what I have been writing about on my blog. Are we not to be taught by Christ or The Bible? One should say, it is “not a teaching of Christ” rather than say something is “unbiblical.” Jesus is The Word of God, not the Bible.

            I draw your attention to what Jesus said at Matthew 6:5-8. Prayer is a “private” matter, not a public or group matter.

            Matthew 18:19-20 is not a reference to group prayer or Jesus LEADING a group in prayer. Person “A” and pray separately from person “B” and reptetition The Most High for the same thing.

            Verse 20 says nothing about two or three gathered together in prayer. Why not four or five? Or more?

            Acts 1:14 does not imply Jesus praying WITH or LEADING a group prayer. Each were praying individually and I doubt very much that they were on “public” display.

            Acts 2:42 does not saying anything about praying together. Yes, there was praying but it would have been in accordance with the WAY Jesus taught it should be at Matthew 6:6.

            Acts 12:5 is interesting because the congregation or “church” prayed for him. What is a congregation or church, “individual” members. Each would have prayed privately and individually to God concerning Peter. ALL in agreement. One continues being a “church” or a “congregation” even when they are in their individual homes. I can be at a great distance from a fellow believer(s) and yet each of us can pray “in agreement” to God over a matter and Christ is in the midst of us.

            Acts 12:12. I still do not see this as a “group” prayer where someone is taking the lead. Who is leading this group in prayer? These persons would be praying as Jesus taught them, each privately. We are not told anything about this house. It may have contained many rooms or inner chambers were one could pray in private to the Father as Jesus did.

            Why would I want my left hand know what my right hand is doing? My prayers – whether for myself or for others – is between me and The Most High God through Christ.

            If you and I or other want to agree to pray for someone or a matter, then we agree and “go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” (Matthew 6:6)

            These men did not SPREAD the Gospel message throughout the world. Tell me, what is that “Gospel” message?

            At Matthew 24:14 Jesus said “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.”

            Why would ANYONE make the assumption that Jesus or God gave anyone “a Gospel” message to preach through the world. Jesus’ command to his followers was not to preach a Gospel. (And I say again, what is that Gospel message?) Rather, Jesus’ command was that his followers:

            “… go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” (Matthew 28:19-20)

            No Gospel message mentioned there.

            It is at the end of the age (Jesus’ 1000 year kingdom and when Satan is released) that the Gospel (Good News) of the Kingdom will be preached AND IT WILL NOT BE PEOPLE WHO WILL PREACH IT, ANGELS WILL.

            “Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people.” (Rev 14:6)

            No human or human agency on earth knows what that Gospel message is as God will not entrust it’s preach to the entire earth as a witness to any human. God will give it to Angels will be entrusted and they will “proclaim” the Gospel.

            If ANYONE today claims they are preaching a “Gospel” then it is a false Gospel. God will not entrust something as important as that to humans. Only angels can reach each and EVERY person on the earth with such an important proclamation.

  2. Michael Harris on

    I agree with everything you said about prayer. I have always wondered why so many Christians pray in public and in a group. Even in Church, I go to a private room to pray. The congregation always looks at me funny when they ask me to join hands in prayer and I always leave the location they are standing and go off to pray. When I return, they ask me where did I go and why every time they pray I leave the room. I tell them because Jesus tells me to. He tells me not to pray in a group or around anyone. They say that it issue okay to pray in a group. I tell them I have to do what Jesus tells me to do. And for me it is not okay. Thank you so much for sharing your views with me

    • Thank you for your reply. I am pleased that persons such as yourself “see” the importance of listening to the one The Most High God says we are to listen to. (Luke 9:35)

      Too many simply do not want to listen to The Most High God and His Christ. Instead, they prefer to listen to “religious organization” and blindly carry on with “traditional” practices and rituals. One of them being public prayer.

      Jesus is clear about withdrawing to a private place to approach the Father in prayer. He did this.

      “Public” prayers are for “public display” and there is nothing private about it. If one feels compelled to pray to the Father in public places, why not do it silently and inwardly. Who says that one MUST close their eyes, bow their heads, kneel or fold their hands to pray? I can be reading a newspaper – for example – and be praying without opening my mouth and eyes wide open and no one around me would even know it. This would qualify as “withdrawing to a private place” because know one but the person praying, God and Christ would know. The left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. In other words, the person is not “advertising” that s/he is praying. (Matthew 6:3-4)

      Even with a “church” group or building where members are gathered under a common belief, open prayer among themselves is still “public.” It is public advertising to the persons around them. There is no “withdrawing” to a private place. There is no “NOT letting the left hand know what your right hand is doing.” ALL present KNOWS what you are saying and praying about; ALL (right hand) KNOW what the left hand is doing and asking God for.  Our prayers to the Father are between the individual and God, not for the group to know.

      I find it funny – sort of – when self-righteous persons use the expression, “I am going to pray for that person …” and then they go on to tell other persons what they are going to pray out. The left hand knows what the right hand is doing. Or, you get persons who “advertise” to a person in need (or not in need) that they are going to “pray FOR them.” Cat’s out of the bag! Nothing private there.

      The problem is that the religious system called my men, Christianity, has taught and “sold” assumptions as truth. Prayer being one of those assumptions. This religious system – like so many others – want to do as it pleases and desires to keep persons kindergarten-level. Kindergarten children are “dependent” and do not challenge adult figures. Christianity presents itself as an adult figure and by keeping its membership “infantile” it can control them and tell them anything it wishes.

      It has lied about the issue of prayer and has made an “outward” ritual of it.

      • thanks for your massage because i have just heared myles munroe saying jesus never prayed with his disciple and i was like astonished with the statement and had to dig deeper to the piont where i came across you saying the same thing (praying in private is the right way for jesus has been the example of this)

        • I must admit that do not know who Myles Munroe is. I looked him up on the Internet and see that he was a preacher who died in an airplane crash.

          But if Mr. Munroe said that Jesus never prayed with his disciples, he is correct.

          The problem in the world of what men call Christianity is: That Christianity wants people to obey it and listen to it rather than humbly directing people to obey God’s command given at Luke 9:35 “To listen” to Christ.

          If Christ were truly being listened to, no one claiming to follow him would pray in public. Why would they want to? To be seen by men? For a public display to let all know that they are godly or something? Public non-private prayer slaps back into Christs face what he taught about prayer and the manner it was to be conducted. The so-called believing world is hard-headed and seeks to do as it pleases and would prefer to listen to men rather than to Christ.

      • I am pleased that one more person sees this. May The Most High God continue to open eyes. 

        You know, when persons insist on praying in public (rather than in private – between the individual and God), they are calling Jesus a liar.

        Jesus was clear in his teaching about the manner in which one should pray to the Father. (Matthew Chapter 6)

        The questions many should ask themselves are: "Why is the religious system that claims to be for him – Christianity – so insistent on teaching and practicing public and group prayer?" Why are they so defiant towards the teachings, practices and examples of Christ?

        The answer is clear to me: Christianity is not from Christ, it is from men. Anything from Christ would do as Christ taught and would teach others to do the same. Christianity and the fruit it is producing is teaching people to do the opposite of what Christ taught. This opposition is what is called "the spirit of antichrist." It is an "anti" or (opposing) teaching that has maqueraded itself as teachings from Christ.

        Christ warned us at Matthee 24:4-5 that many would come truthfuly teaching that he is the Christ … BUT … they would mislead many. This "many" spoken of in Matthew 24:4-5 encompasses ALL of Christianity. It has MANY denominations all over the world and they ALL truthly teach the Jesus is the Christ … BUT …

        The really disturbing part is that the religious system as a whole takes offense at persons who really chose to align themselves with what Christ taught and goes to great lengths to make it appear that thoses persons are misled, misguided or even crazy. 🙂

    • That is correct, one is to follow Christ – not Churches and what THEY teach.

      This is a MAJOR in the world. People defend their “Religion” rather than Christ himself. Religions can be destroyed. Religions can become corrupted (Rev 18:2). Religions can prostitute themselves and marry the State, serve and go to bed with the political leadership, Christ is loyal. Christ cannot be destroyed and he cannot be corrupted (the devil tried).

      So why do people cling so tightly to “religion?” Because we exist in a world ruled by Satan and religion serves the clever purpose of drawing persons away from the truth and “true” discipleship to Christ. Millions upon millions safe in their religious organizations claim and think they know and serve Christ. What a shock it will be to them to hear Christ declare to them: ” I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.” (Matthew 7:21-23)

      And, I agree, Jesus NEVER prayed in public and did not teach “public” and “group” prayer.

      That much of the world understands prayer and conducts it in a manner not following Christs example, shows who they are NOT listening to. This should raise high a red flag that it was NEVER “religion” or the one imposing itself as being from God andf Christ – Christianity – are not from God. They are imposters.

       

       

       

      • For this matter that jesus pray in public yes he did if you read the bible say’s when jesus nailed to the cross and watching of thousand people, what jesus did he lift his eye’s and pray ….this must be contradiction of what jesus thought ? and also apostol paul said in 1 ”TIMOTHHY” 2;8 I’d  like the people to pray in every where,,,

         

        • Please show me – and those visiting this website – where Jesus lifts up his eyes and there are thousands of people watching and he is praying?

          Why would you assume that 1 Tim 2:8 is referring to a “group” of men? Why could this not be “individual” men “in every place” praying?

  3. hello dear brother, i have read your article and am encouraged by your love of Gods word and the disere to stick only to that,what i fell to say is that it is true that jesus did not engage in public praying as many churches do today but it is also true that he prayed sometimes in public. So although it is true that we should listen to jesus by not speaking out words or shouting in public as many people do, it will also be a kind of taking for ourselves the initiative by saying that it is wrong to actually pray in a place where there are other peoples since Jesus himself did it, Paul did (ephis, 3:14-21) and then as you have already stated, after peter was released he came to find the disciples praying.There are also many examples in the bible where one person stood over to pray in behalf of many people ( Elijah, on top of Mount Carmel  (1 Kings 18:36, 37). solomon’s prayer at the inauguration of the temple (1kings 8) I think now the only diference about these examples and that of what many christians do today is the manner in which its done. Since prayer is first of all a talk between a believer and God, the factor “privicy” should be outmost in it unless it is done in behalf of many people. When many people gather together to pray, it would be a little immodest to say it is completly wrong since the bible talked of the disciples praying under a roof, now it is not stated whether each person prayed aloud or silently, but as prayer is first off all a conversation within a man and God and also considering that God knows what is in our heart it will then be only logical to pray at the time when everyone else around us is doing it, in silence or in our head, for the many reasons that you have already given and also as Paul said in 1 cor. 14: 33 says ; God is a God not of disorder but of peace.  thank you

    • Thank you for the kind words. I do appreciate them. It is not enough for me when someone just says that, "Jesus did not engage in public praying as many churches do today but it is also true that he prayed sometimes in public" and no scriptural examples are given that he prayed in public.

      For Jesus to have done that, we would have been a hypocrite because that is not the manner of prayer that he taught at Matthew 6:1-8.

      I suggest you read Ephesians Chapter 3 in its entirety. Paul is not praying to God, he is speaking to "the people of the nations (Gentiles)." (Eph 3:1)

      Because one sees "Amen" at the end does not mean he was praying to God. The expression Amen means "so be it" and it was a custom back then to use it after speaking to a group of people. The people say Amen as an acknolwedgement; it is similar to the applause after hearing something one agrees with. See Numbers 5:22, Deut 27:15-26 and Ne 5:13 for examples. In these examples, Amen is used and God is not being prayed to.

      Please show me where JESUS prayed openly in public; provide these scriptures for the benefit of all who visit this website.

      Thanks.

       

      • These scripture references have already been provided for you concerning Jesus praying in a public (so that they may be 'published' – otherwise how would we know what he prayed) setting.  Remember prayer is simply talking to God.  His admonishment for praying like the Pharisees had to do with motive.  He wants his followers to be pure in motive when praying not trying to impress people or manipulate them in their presence while praying with or for them.   In Ephesians ch. 3 who do you think Paul was expecting to carry out those prayers on behalf of those people?  Do you think he was merely appealing to their own personal will without the help of the Holy Spirit?  What does Paul say in 1 Cor. 14:13-17 about the difference in praying in a tongue or praying with the mind?  Now you may say that 'Paul was talking about giving thanks in those verses'.  Who are the "thanksgiving" directed to?  God of course.  Grace and peace.

        • What I read here is simply wanting to do what Christ commanded us TO DO: “When you pray, go into your private room and, after shutting your door, pray to your Father who is in secret.” You apparently give the Apostle Paul more prominence than Christ himself. You quote him more than the one God commanded us to listen to. (Luke 9:35)

          The Apostle Paul would have prayed in private as well as we do not see any examples of any of Christs disciples engaged in public or group prayer. If public or group prayer was a teaching of Christ we would see examples of it seeded throughout the Bible. But we don’t! Why?

          Because …

          “When you pray, go into your private room and, after shutting your door, pray to your Father who is in secret.”

          There is absolutely nothing in 1Cor14:13-17 that implies the disciples prayed publicly. Tongues is “a known” language that must be translated. If a person “privately” prays to The Father in his own language and receives an answer from the Father, that person cannot very well tell those who does not speak his language what God revealed to him – in private. Someone has to act as a translator for him.

          No once to you see the word “we” mentioned at 1Cor14:13-17. Rather, the word “I” is used. You attempt to lift from those verses what is not there to sell the notion of public and group prayer; something Jesus did not teach.

          I remind you, the Apostle Paul is NOT your Lord.

           

  4. It is very easy to take one scripture out of context and build an unfounded standard upon it. Jesus was clearly descibing men that were praying for in public for the sole purpose of being heard by men and appearing to be righteous. The bible shows us many times over where prayer is appropiate privately and publicly if the intent of the heart is sincere unto God. We are commanded to go out and preach the gospel to lay hands on the sick and pray for them and they shall recover. in Acts 2 the Holy Ghost was poured out upon a group of 120 who were together in one accord praying and as the Holy Ghost was poured men heard them publicly praying and praising God in there own tounges and marveled at how it could be. Lets get real the Bible tells us to pray without ceasing. prayer is our life line to God and when done sincerely before God and not for the purpose of being heard it is absolutely appropiate and biblical. Jesus became angry because the temple was being turned into a den of thieves he proclaimed my house shall be called a house of prayer. You do what you desire but I am going to keep right on praying in the closet at home in my vehicle in my church and wherever else I find myself to be and the need for prayer arises.

     

    • There is that proverbial “Taking scripture out of context” line again. It is almost always used whenever someone says or writes something that members of particular religious don’t have an answer for and seeking “blind” acceptance without a testing. It is a maintenance of what “religious organization” teaches as opposed to what Christ teaches.

      By using expressions such as Jesus “CLEARLY describing …” and not providing Scriptural evidence hardly makes anything “CLEARLY.”

      Jesus was NOT just CLEARLY describing men that were praying in public for the SOLE purpose of being heard. YOU added that. Jesus referred to ANYONE praying in “public.” That includes you, me, all persons. If WE do it, we too are hypocrites.

      Why would anyone pray in public UNLESS they want to be seen praying in public? Why would Jesus say to his disciples, “When YOU pray go into YOUR private room and, after shutting your door, pray to your Father who is in secret; then your Father who looks on in secret will repay you.”

      There is nothing being taken out of context here. You make Christ a liar.

      When it is written for “us” to pray incessently, why would you ASSUME that it is referring to a “group” and not “the individual.” Group prayers are not private.

      A person could enter into a synagogue and pray in private. Again, you assume persons prayed as a group.

      You replace what “Christ says” with what “the Bible says” an what did CHRIST tell his disciples at Matthew 6:1-8? Nothing there is about “praying as a group.”

      We do not see it PRACTICED by Christ or ANY of his disciples.

      There is NOTHING in the account in Acts there is nothing said  about 120 men in the upper room “in one accord praying.” You added this.

      Peter, John, James, Andrew, Philip, Thomas, Barholomew, Matthew, James [the son] of Alphae′us, Simon and Judas [the son] of James were persisting in prayer “TOGETHER” with some women, Mary and his brothers.

      YOU assume that they were all gathered in a group praying. It appears that they ALL were gathered together in one location, but each withdrawing to a “private” room or private chamber IN THAT place, to pray as individuals over the same things.

      This would be in keeping with Christs example in what he taught and did.(Matthew 6:1-7)

      That you felt the need to do that shows that you are not listening to Christ or obeying the Most High God. You are listening to men and their religious organizations are telling you.

      You will not find any instances of Christ praying WITH his disciples or entire congregations praying as a group. Why? Because those taught directly by Christ – his Apostles – knew the correct teachings about prayer: That it was private matter between the individual and God.

      I find it odd that you do not reference when Jesus prayed, he withdrew to a “private” place. By contrast, he is NEVER seen praying with a group or over a group of people. That would have gone against his teaching about prayer at Matthew 6:1-8.

      It is truly a curious thing how Christianity finds a way to oppose Christ while at the same time making it “appear” that the obey and follow him.

      Christianity has misled the world away from God and Christ and has it doing that which Christ never taught and what God had not commanded.

      Your closing comment says it all in a defiant way: “I am going to keep right on praying in the closet at home in my vehicle in my church and wherever else I find myself to be and the need for prayer arises.”

      It is that “I” word.

      It is what “YOU” desire to do. “YOUR” OWN WILL and “YOUR” OWN way. Not “Christs” way.

      This is the “spirit” of antichrist. (opposing Christ).

      I will obey God and follow Christ example. Notice Jesus did not say, “Go into OUR private room (as in a group), but he said “Go into YOUR private room …”

      If I pray in the present of other believers, then that is “public.” Fellow believers are MEMBERS of the body of Christ are they not?

      The “hand” is a member of the body.

      Jesus said at Matthew 6:3:

      “do not let your left hand know what your right is doing.”

      If you pray in the presence of other MEMBERS you let the left hand (other members) know what YOU, the right hand (the other member) is doing.

      Before you quickly dismiss something off as “taking something out of context” (which is really a looking the other way or putting one head in the sand” YOU should look at the big picture and look at Christs example. He never prayed in public. His disciples back then never did.

      If he or his disciples did, then surely you would produce the instances (by scripture verse) where they did. Why have you not done that? You are just making statements without substantiation. You just can’t expect thinking people to blindly accept such statements with the “required” testing of them. (1 John 4:1)

      You will not find any Scriptures showing Christ or his disciples praying in public or in a group.

      Never assume that I have not looked. (Jesus breaking bread and sharing wine with his disciples at the last supper was not a prayer.)

      Who stands to benefit in getting persons to practice what Christ did not? His greatest adversary. This adversary has most of the world opposing God and Christ.

      Very few people I know, champion Christ and what he taught. Instead, they champion a book INSTEAD of him! You, like so many others, use the expression “The Bible clearly says or teaches … rather than have it in your minds that what “The Bible” teaches is nothing compared to what “Christ” teaches. The Bible is NOT a Teacher. Christ is. (John 13:13 and Matt 28:3)

      This fails the test.

      • Sorry But you are in error. it appears you have ungone seminary school. I can tell by your zeal. But you are in error, you are what I call a modern day pharisee. it’s funny you tell people not to listen to preachers, but you are doing exactly what you accuse them of doing, controlling the people. Do you understand this scripture and meaning? If so then why are you disobeying the Lord with your babble. Romans 14:4 -18

        Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

        5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

        10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister<sup class="footnote" data-fn="#fen-NIV-28291a" data-link="[a]”>[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

        “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
        ‘every knee will bow before me;
            every tongue will acknowledge God.’”<sup class="footnote" data-fn="#fen-NIV-28292b" data-link="[b]”>[b]

        12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

        13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

        • I write all the time how when mainstream “Christianity” is not agreed with, it attacks “the person” rather than dealing with the subject matter.

          Who says one is a servant of God other than the self-proclaimers? It is Christ who will determine who are truly his slaves, not any of us.

          You seek to define the rules and claim I am disobeying the Lord because I do not agree with YOU and what you claim is a religious system from God?

          There is no judgment of other going on with me. You are confused. You cleverly call “foul” that I am judging you when it is simply not AGREEING with you. Yet, for you to cry “you are judging others” is the only ammunition (without power) that you have.

          The Master spoke great words concerning hypocrites and persons claiming to be his followers but were not. I simply repeat his words. They are not not my words. Yet, you are not happy to receive the Masters words. You attack them.

          I am not defined by your religion or anyone elses religion as God did not create religion, man did.

          I am defined by my Master Jesus Christ and no one else. (Luke 9:35)

          The contention you perceive is a between listening to Christ and listening to Christianity.

          I listen to Christ.

          You appear to be insulted and so you lash out. That in itself is powerful testimony where Christs teachings reside within you.  Recall, Christ met the lash and said his true disciples would also.

  5. That was incredibly creative maneuvering around the truth. acts 1:13 says they went into a room not rooms or chambers or closets a room singular. verse 14 says they all continued in one ACCORD IN PRAYER AND SUPPLICATION with the women not seperated but with. Verse 24 of the same chapter says They prayed and said…..again a prayer of beleivers praying together or how about acts 12:5 prayer was made of the church continually and verse 12 says they were gathered together praying seems this early church wasn’t very obedient according to you. You also sidestepped the issue of the group in acts 2 were praying in the holyghost so loud that it drew a crowd. Jesus often got alone to pray and we should as well but your out on a weak limb claiming its wrong to gather and pray in unity with other beleivers. my closing comment is a bold proclimation that I am not ashamed to pray wherever the need arises and is 100% biblical you should check out 1 timothy 2:8 I will therefore that men pray EVERYWHERE finally I will say this either all of the Bible is truth and appropriate to learn from or none of it is you can’t base your argument from scriptures out of Book that you in turn say that the Bible is not a valid authority that’s ludicrous

    • Now that is what I call “Calling the Kettle Black.”

      A “creative manuvering around Acts 1:13” you say.

      How about a total avoidance of what Christ himself said and taught at Matthew Chapter 6 BY YOU !!! 🙂 And, I say that respectfully.

      The disciples would NOT have done something different than what their Master had taught them. Group prayer was NOT Jesus’ practice and neither would it have been the practice of his disciples.

      This is where YOU are confused: You assume that a group of people are gathered together and some person is leading them in prayer. Or, you assume that they are all “audibly” praying so that the person next to them can hear them. That practice is what modern man has created and to this day practices. Modern man even has it where certain positions are taken such as closing the eyes, kneeling or the folding of the hands. Man created that.

      I could be in a public place and “praying” and know one around me would know it because I am not “advertsing” it by bowing my head or folding my hands or speaking. I am praying silently from the inside.

      If in among a group of believers and all of you are praying together and the other “member” can hear what you are saying, can “see” that you have assumed some position, YOU and THEY are being hypocrites according to the Master.

      You are letting your “let your left hand know what your right is doing.” The hand is a “member” of the body.” In other words, YOU are letting the “other members” around you know what YOU are doing.

      The MAJORITY of the world thinks of prayer this way. Yet, the world is opposed to Christ and Christs followers are not to be “molded” in the way of the worlds thinking.

      You and others who think in this matter water down what Christ taught because of YOUR traditions concerning prayer and you ignore what he taught at Matthew Chapter 6.

      YOU ASSUME that Christs disciples were “praying together” in that each and every one of them could see and hear what the other was saying. That would not have been the case. 

      Each one would have withdrawn to a private place physically or within themselves (with no indication that they were praying to God). They would not have been praying openly among each other. They would have obeyed what their Master has taught. Unlike so many today to try to find loopholes to make it seem that open and public prayer is what Christ taught.

      As far as I am concerned this twisted ritual of “prayer” as it is practiced today, is no different from what persons who practice VooDoo engage in. It is nothing but the man of European decent changing and defining for EVERYONE else how prayer to God is to be conducted.

      I personally reject and do not subscribe to what the man of European descent has done to Christs teachings. In my view he is in gross error and I do not listen to him.

      I listen to Christ.

      You should to.

      Many of you are so consumed with finding a Scripture here and there a “proof text” that prayer should be conducted a certain way, YOU ACTUALLY DO NOT read and practice what Christ said at Matthew Chapter 6.

      You prefer NOT to listen to what HE SAID.

      Jesus said do not pray in public (streets) or in the synagogues to be seen by others as to know what you are doing.

      Scouring scriptures to find tidbits of “proof-text” that lead you to “think” that what Christs disciples where doing was “praying together” as if in a public way among themselves is PALES by comparison in what Christ said. No assumptions can be made there.

      Christ was clearin what he said at Matthew Chapter 6 yet you and so many run away from what HE said and consult someone else.

      I obey Christ and no one but God and Christ will “see” or “hear” me praying. I can be praying “together” with fellow disciples with the same goal in mind, but they will NEVER see or hear me praying in front of them. My prayers to God is between me -the individual – and God.

      Again, you assume that when persons are praying EVERYWHERE that it is “public” and “together.”

      People can be praying “everywhere” and no one see or hear them as persons praying.

      Imagine, for example, one million individuals praying and not one of them knows that the other is praying. Each one not advertising what they are doing, but they are in prayer to God.

      You and the entire world have been misled AWAY from following what Christ taught in this regard. Instead you fight and defend your traditions of kneeling, folding your hands, bowing your heads and outstretching your hands to the sky INSTEAD of defending what Christ taught at Matthew 6.

      To me, the “Bible” means little, Christ means everything.

      What you have done – whether you realize it or not – is place what “The Bible says” over what “Christ says” and my friend, there is a major difference. (What is written in the scrolls, not THE BIBLE)

      God did not tell you to listen to a book that – once again the European man compiled and sold to the world as being holy, and the word of God – HE told us to listen to his Son. (Luke 9:35)

      That is what you and the majority of the world who claim to follow him have not done. You defend YOUR traditions.

      The way you view prayer is not how Christ taught it.

      • You have just undermined your whole argument.  If you reject the "Bible" then how are you confident in the recorded words of Christ since they were only compiled by men with a religious agenda?  See 2 Tim. 3:16.  Your whole view seems to be based on one primary witness (Matt 6)  but you reject many other scriptural witnesses that put Matt 6 into a proper context along with all instances where Jesus confronts the practices of the Pharisees as a means to highlight just how far they are from true worship.  I agree that I find no instance of Jesus praying specifically with someone as at that time no one could add to His prayer over a certain situation because Jesus 'did not trust himself to men because He knew men and what was in a man'.  (John 2:24-25 paraphrase)

        • Perhaps you would like to think I have undermined myself. I cannot help what YOU feel. I am sorry.

          My confidence in God and His Messiah does not come from a book that men call the Bible. I do not believe that the book is authentic or from God. I DO believe that there are some things in it – though very few – are teachings from Christ.

          No entity devised by men is to be trusted. The Bible DID NOT come from God. Therefore, it as a “book” cannot be trusted.

          If it came from God, there would have been no need to send His Son!

          Men have already given this book a lofty position that does not belong to it: The Word of God.

          Last time I checked, it was men who “authorized” it. How arrogant is that?

          Who told those men to “add” a book called Revelation to “The Bible?” It does not belong there. Why?

          Because it is the only book that one is told that “It is a revelation by Jesus Christ that GOD GAVE HIM” to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place.” No other book in “The Bible” can make that claim.

          If any book within the Bible should be considered as a whole, it should be the one called “The Book of Revelation.” 

          It should not be a part of a larger book called by men “The Bible.”

          BTW, Jesus prayed alone because that is what he taught. Prayer to God was to be a “private” matter not a “public” or “group” matter. Jesus simply practiced what he preached because he is true.

          When I pray alone it is NOT because I do not trust myself to men! It is because I am following the teaching of my Master. Nothing more and nothing less.

          So what you say about Jesus ”did not trust himself to men because He knew men and what was in a man” simply ignores what Jesus plainly taught at Matthew 6:5-8. This has nothing to do with trusting himself.

           

      • Thank you for your expression of “Christian” love.

        Surely Christ did not teach you this. Perhaps “Christianity” did.

        I wonder why so many people are beginning to find Christianity so unattractive now?

  6. With all due respect we will have to agree to disagree. I have never heard of anyone defaming the very source of their own argument. what book do you suppose matthew 6 is found in (THE BIBLE!!) 🙂 and yet you say that the Bible is not valid over what Jesus said and yet you read what Jesus says from the Bible unless of course you are claiming to be reading from the original scrolls which I highly doubt. I do not think you realize that Jesus is making a conditional statement in matthew 6 he does not say ( Do not pray in public.) He says the hyprocrite loves to stand in the church  TO BE SEEN so that it will bring him some glory of man. You assume that I am a religious fanatic steeped in the traditions of man and trained like a puppet to spew out some jargon of traditional religious ideas that have planted in my mind by master manipulators when in reality I am just  a man that has a love for Gods word and truth. I do not beleive God would honor disobediance. no where in scripture did he. And yet I can testify of countless prayers that he has answered for me that were prayed out loud, in a church, or in a group setting. Thats all it is not important that I win this debate I just feel that in a time that the world wants to shut the Church up no true beleiver should be telling anyone to quit praying unless they are completely alone.

    • I have already explained this. Perhaps you do not want to understand.

      This book called “The Bible” was GIVEN this name by the European. This book called “The Bible” was compliled by the European. The European took it upon himself to call it “Holy.” The European took it upon himself to call it “Authorized” (by who?). He also told the world that IT is The Word of God.

      My point is that many are focused on “A NAME.” That name being “The Bible” and they ascribe the things spoken in this book they gave a name to TO THE BIBLE rather than to God and Christ.

      Your reply shows that YOU TO are a victim to the lie that “The Bible” is The Word of God. You defend it as such. You are not defending “the person” of Christ as being The Word of God.

      Jesus NEVER says “FROM THE BIBLE.” Jesus simply says. Why are you saying Jesus is saying “From The Bible?” You have placed Jesus inside of a book that men named. This is improper. One should say simply that “Jesus taught or said.” THE BIBLE has nothing to do with what Jesus said. Suppose the European man named the book “Ralph” would you say that “Jesus said from The Ralph?”

      You too are a victim of a great a deception that has you placing a book above Christ, who is the only Word of God. The Bible has NOTHING to do with it. Jesus exists OUTSIDE of the confines of a book, and that is what many REFUSE to see.

      Winning is what most within the system of religion Christianity seek. I could careless about competing or winning. I am so far beyond that as it is a total waste of time.

      I do know when persons are agitated become uncomfortable when their believe system is shaken and messed with. I also know that people LOVE to speak of their experiences as if they came from God. yet, they deceive themselves because if Jesus taught public prayer is hypocritical and we NEVER see him engaged in it … and people still do it ANYWAY … then those persons can care less about what Christ taught. They are simply going along with what EVERYONE else is doing. They are being disobedient to God and Christ.

      Tesifying has no meaning. It is simply an experience and opinion and does not cover over “the truth” about what Christ taught about prayer and provided the proper example of.

      This is the spirit of antichrist. It is an “opposing” of what Christ taught.

      Sadly, what Christ foretold is happening, many claiming to know him and following him, do not know him and he will not know them. (Matthew 7:23)

      They know a book, not not him. And, they defend that book.

      I speak and learn from God through Christ EACH DAY without a book called the Bible. You know how? By placing faith in him and praying – in private – to the Father through His Son.

      It takes NO FAITH to believe in “The Bible” because you can see it. Besides no book can contain all of God’s wisdom, understanding and knowledge and I will not limit myself to it.

      Incidently, I quote from “The Bible” not for my sake, but for the sake of those who read from it. So when you say, …”defaming the very source of their own argument” you are mistaken. I have NEVER defended and held up “a book” as The Word of God.

      There is only one Word of God: Jesus [the] Christ, the invisible one. Faith is needed to have communion with him. This is something that “Christianity” has NOT cultivated in its membership. Rather, it is faith in paper bound by leather (a book) that they have persons place faith in and defend. FEW and I mean FEW defend Christ as the ONLY Word of God. This tells me how far gone the so-called believing world (who think they are true believer) are.

      They are badly misled and do not even know it.

      • Do you have other revelations received you could share with us not found in "The Bible"?  How can you hang your hat on what you say Christ says in Matt. 6 if you give the "Bible" a shakey or suspect existence in the first place.  Perhaps those Europeans made up what Matt. 6 says.

        • The Bible itself – as a book – is not authentic and it cannot be trusted.

          Anything spoken from it – or any other so-called holy book – must be verifed by the One God Himself. I have learned that the Bible fails the test. Only the words of the Messiah can be trusted and only a small percentage of what the Messsiah spoke is (as truth) found in that book.

          It is a simple matter of asking the One God through his only authorized channel for knowledges and understandings we require and need and what we receive from the Father will not come from a book. That is not possible because no book has been authorized as the channel the Most High God would use. It is the man of European who has sold the lie that the Bible is “The Word of God.”

          There is a spiritual place many have yet to discover. It is far vast and pervasive than one can imagine. Those who find it will come to understand that a book with about 1500 pages is nothing compared to what comes directly out of God’s mouth into our hearts and ears. The Bible limits knowledge and wisdom and controls the individual within a small circle and that is all they know. There is much more than what a book that European men themselves arrogantly “authorized.”

          Christ never walked around with a Bible in his hand and neither did any of this disciples long after he ascended. The world has been thoroughly deceived by the man of European descent. He even makes up his own Jesus to look like him.

          My hat is not hung on a Bible verse. Who created “verses?”

          My hat is hung on a teaching that I have been able to confirm as true NOT by books, or other people, or religions – but by the Creator us all. It is by this ONE that confirmation is made. This ONE will prove Himself to be who He says He is and His word will not return without results.

          All that we know today: governments, religions, educational institutions, financial systems, and military regimes will be laided waste. The world will be reinvented.

  7. I have been trying to teach this for years and not one person will accept it. They become quickly offended and reject him whicn is his word. I have share this page on Facebook and hope it will enlighten others.

     

  8. Concerning your post/reply on January 7, 2013:

    You had me all the way up to the point where you indicated we are to NOT share the gospel. This unto itself is nothing less than apostasy and you will have to answer to the Lord for this my friend. People are saved by their individual response to the Gospel!

    Although I understand the point that you are trying to make I counter with the following rebuttal submitted to you and all to prayerfully consider:

    Jesus via the great commission states in Matt 28:19, that we are to “go” and make disciples.  What is the primary thing that we are to "Go" and teach?  Well, Paul tells us ever so boldly in 1 Cor 1:23 (which is the central part of the Gospel). Further, Paul indicates we ARE to preach and teach a Gospel as illuminated in Gal 1:8 & 2 Cor 11:4 (and by all means are my aforementioned points exhaustive on the matter). Lastly, and to that end, what is the "good news" (the Gospel) that is being spoken of in Romans 10:14-15?  I want all to turn to their Bibles (Digital or Paper) and see 1 Corinthians 15. 

    This rebuttal is in loving response to your arguments posed here in this article good sir; and, I want all to know that it is my firmest belief, Mr. Harris loves the Lord and it is not his intent to mislead but rather draw others to the Truth our Lord Jesus Christ. 

    For the sake of brevity, I did not provide the scriptures contained within my response; but I encourage all to open their Bibles and see this day what the Lord has for you. God bless you all.

    "So then faith comes by hearing, and the ear to hear by the word of God." – Rom 10:17

    • Several points I would like to elaborate on. (1) Why would I (or anyone else) subscribe to any labeling that YOU or anyone out of the religious organizations create. I am not an Apostate because YOU or someone else finds it convenient to label me as such. I consider myself a disciple of Christ, a champion of his teachings. (2) Neither YOU, Sir or anyone else has produced for anyone what that “Gospel” message is and where it is written. You speak of it, but you NEVER say specifically what it is and you do not show anyone where it is written. (3) Revelation 14:6 is clear that no human will be entrusted to preach the “perfect” Gospel message or declare it. We are told that when God does release or unseal that “Gospel Message,” an angel will declare it. I find it sad that many of you run away from this .

      Additionally, this “you will answer to the Lord” sounds like something Satan the Devil would say. Historically, this is what Christianity does. It issues threat and condemnation to anyone who does not go along with its nonsensical teachings and who challenge them. Jesus Christ NEVER spoke in this manner to anyone. Many of you are too emotionally wound up and drugged that rationale and reason is not in your tool boxes. So who is teaching YOU?

      Christ did not call his disciples to follow a book that men gave the name “Bible” to. He called his disciples to follow “him.” I do not “push” the Bible, I push Christs teachings. It is NOT according to the Bible, but rather according to Christ, the one The Most High God commanded us to listen to. (Luke 9:35)

      What you fail to understand is that there is more than one type of “Gospel” or “Good News.”  For example, there is the “Gospel about Jesus Christ” (Mark 1:1). There is the “Gospel about God” (Mark 1:14). There is the “Gospel of the Kingdom.” (Matt 24:14) There is a generic good tidings or Gospel. So when you speak of “The Gospel” which one are you referring to? I am referring to what Christ spoke of at Matthew 24:14: The Good News or Gospel of the Kingdom. What is it and where is it written? It is not to be found anywhere. No one one can produce it because it has not been given and when it is, no human(s) will be commissioned to declare it. One cannot simply create out of thin air a gospel message and say “it is the gospel.”

      I have asked 25 people on the street claiming to be Christians the question, “What is the Gospel.” I was given 25 different responses. This is not surprising to me. Christianity sowed this confusion.

      Jesus’ command to his disciples said nothing about preaching a Gospel of the Kingdom. You and others make that assumption. Jesus had mentioned at Matthew 24:14 a preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom, did he not? 

      Later at Matthew 28:19-20, Jesus never repeated what he said at Matthew 24:14. He said nothing to his disciples about preaching a Gospel of the Kingdom. Why? Because he had not given them such as message. Jesus knew that no imperfect human(s) could be trusted or entrusted to declare such an important and perfect message. No human has earned the right to receive such a message to declare to others.

      Rather, Jesus commanded his disciples to teach others what he taught them and “teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” Jesus NEVER gave a command to preach a Gospel of the Kingdom. Christianity is the Apostate and foretold impostor that has misled the entire world with its false teachings and false gospels and claims to preaching a gospel.

      You are mistaken, people are not saved (for eternal life) because they respond to some false gospel message today. Christianity seeks membership, not a salvation of people. Jesus said that salvation comes only after a period of faithful testing to the end. The end has not arrived yet. No one is in a saved state today. That is NOT what Jesus taught. It is what Christianity falsely teaches. Thus, no one can be saved by responding to any message man himself claims is a Gospel. (Matthew 10:22)

      1 Cor 1:23 is simply an affrirmation of what Jesus told his disciples to do at Matthew 28:19-20, to “preach Christ” or the gospel of Christ. Where is it stated by the Apostle Paul at 1 Cor 1:23 to preach a Gospel of the Kingdom? You are confused.

      Gal 1:8 and 2 Cor 11:4 are both affirmations to what Jesus told his disciples to do at Matthew 28:19-20. All Christ disciples knew was a Gospel about Christ. They had no knowledge of a Good News of the Kingdom! So of course those early disciples declared what they know about Christ: A Gospel or Good News about him. This is not the same as the Gospel of the Kingdom. Even 2 Cor 11:4 mentions preaching a Jesus and a gospel. The only gospel his disciples would have been given or would have known about was the teachings Jesus passed on to them. Jesus NEVER gave them a Gospel of the Kingdom to declare.

      An entire reading of 1 Cor 15 supports what I have been saying: It speaks of a gospel about Christ. That Christ died in behalf of mankind is “good news” or gospel. But is not the Gospel Jesus spoke about at Matthew 24:14.

      Yes, I encourage readers to examine their Bibles and do not be easily taken in my Christianity’s slight of hand. It does not want people to think. It wants people blindly accept what it tells them.

      Yes, please examine your Bibles and find that more than one “Gospel” is mentioned in it. Discover for yourself that what Christ commanded his disciples to do was to make more disciples to him by teaching them what he taught them; in other words, the gospel or “good news” about him. Discover that Jesus NEVER gave his disciples a Gospel of the Kingdom message to declare. They never speak of it. It stands to reason that Christ’s disciples would speak of declaring a Gospel of the Kingdom message but they do not.

      Be careful, dear reader of those who do not want you to think for yourselves and those who are quick to condemn and label others. Christ NEVER taught that! These people are in fear that you will learn the truth and reject THEM!

      Do not let them dupe you into believing that there is only one Gospel message. One is known (Gospel about Christ) is known and man is free to declare it. The Gospel about the Kingdom is not known and has not been given. And, when it is given, an angel will be entrusted to declare it to the world. (Rev 14:6)

  9. Addendum to my previous post: 

    It is preposterous to propose that no human agency on earth knows what the gospel is and as I stated in previous post, of course we do! Its laid out in black and white by the Lord in 1 Cor 15. That said, God does absolutely "entrust" us with the Gospel message.  How else are others going to be saved? He uses us to spread the good news of Jesus, His son born in the flesh, died on a cross for our sins and three days later rose again. That very message and name is what humans must respond  to come into a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

    • I smile at your use of the adjective "preposterous." I find that when people use such parts of speech they are trying to convince themselves more than anything else. It also drags a Red Herring over the issue.

      Just like there are two baptisms (Water and Holy Spirit); Jesus' baptism being the greater one that all should seek, yet many automatically thinks and assumes water when one mentions baptism, likewise with GOSPEL, there is more than one GOSPEL. You lump them all together as one. 

      It is obvious that Jesus entrusted his disciples to preach a gospel about him (Gospel about Jesus Christ). They would have known such a gospel as they are Christs teachings. Yet, Jesus NEVER gave his disciples a Gospel of the Kingdom (Matthew 24:14). If he had, Jesus would have told them to preach it. One cannot preach what they have not been given,

      Like I said in my previous response, Revelation 14:6 says that an angel will be given and entrusted with an everlasting gospel to declare to all on the earth. No human will declare that gospel to another human because that gospel is about God's everlasting kingdom. It is sealed up. It is for a future time period when ALL of mankind is resurrected from the dead and AFTER Christs future 1000 year kingdom has ended.

      Many fall into the trap of listening to the religious organizations rather than listening to Christ. (Luke 9:35)

      Christianity is NOT of God and Christ. It is of men. It has created a false Christ, a false God, icons such as crosses, and even an image that it blasphemously calls The Word of God: The Bible. It is this idol that it references and seeks answers from. The Bible does contain teachings of Christ, but the entire book is NOT the Word of God. Only a PERSON is The Word of God and he is known as The Son of God and Jesus [the] Christ. It is this person who I listen to and follow, not the teachings coming out of the religious organizations today who have showed themselves to be enemies of Christ.  Jesus said he would not recognize them even though they claim that they know him. (Matthew 7:21-23)

      Christianity tries too hard to gain members to THEMSELVES and they even do it my issuing threat of eternal condemnation. It is a scare tactic, not a loving tactic. That is one reason why I know who it really is. It is a wolf in sheeps clothing. It will turn on you on a dime if you cease to accept what it teaches. (Matthew 7:15)

      Never assume that those you speak to are ignorant because they do not believe as you do. Many have been where you are today and after many years of prayerful study, have come to recognize what Christianity is. Many of them are godly people and they love their Master Jesus Christ. They are very concerned persons because they have come to understand the full import of what Jesus taught at Luke 10:2:

      "The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field."

      The biggest challenge is not among those who DO NOT believe in Christ, but rather in those who claim that they DO! They are the ones spreading false teachings and reaping people from them. Those who know the truth are few and compete with a vast system of religion that teaches Christ in error. The few of us see in front of us plentiful harvest. In the field of the world is Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc that has gathered billions into themselves. Once in their clutches, it is very difficult get them to listen to seeds of truth. The religion itself and loyalty to it – and their holy books – become god.

  10. Glenn Copeland on

    You overlook one important concept implemented upon the death of Jesus. It came after his death because it was that act that fulfilled all the law.

    The concept is this, whatever we bind on earth is bound in Heaven. Therefore, if we choose to pray together in church, that action is acknowledged in Heaven and given approval. This is a freedom we enjoy in Christ vs being bound by the letter of the law. Saying that the actions of Jesus are the only way we can conduct ourselves has the effect of placing Christians again under the letter of a law. The dispensation in which we live today is that of keeping "the spirit of the law", not "the letter of the law".

    This is why we can worship on Sunday instead of Saturday, the sabbath, and not be in violation of the fourth commandment. It is why we commit adultry if we look with lust upon another (spirit of the law) vs the physical act (letter of the law)..As long as the spirit of the law is followed, the jot and tittle of the law is not violated. Otherwise, Jesus died without fulfilling the law. 

    "If two or more are gathered in my name". What defines the "gathering" in His name? Prayer, of course. What can be more in keeping with these words of Jesus than an entire congregation praying in the name of Jesus?


    • What a convenient way to do as one pleases and deviate from Christs teachings and ignore what he taught. Jesus was clear concerning prayer. It is to be a private matter between the individual and the Father. Jesus practiced what he preached and that is why we never read of him ever praying together with his disciples.

      The group and public prayer line of thinking falls in line with Satan and his world: Defy God and Christ and disobey them.

      “If two or more are gathered in my name” does not mean praying together in a physical sense. I can be thousands of miles away or locked up some place and separated from my Brothers and Sisters. But I can still be with them in a spiritual sense and be in agreement with them in following Christ in finishing the work His Father sent him to do.

      At Matthew 28:19-20 Jesus gave a command. Yet, Jesus said he “I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Jesus later ascended into heaven and is no longer “physically” present. So in what way is he “ALWAYS” with us? In a spiritual sense. True followers of Christ would never question that because they take it as a matter of faith.

      Likewise, while not physically present with a Brother or Sister or group of followers, I can be with them (gathered with them) in a spiritual sense.

      Jesus taught that God MUST be worshiped with spirit and truth. (John 4:23-24) Public prayer and prayer in groups physically is not spiritual, it is hypocritical because it is an outwardly display. Something that is “seen” by others. (We do not want praise from men, but from God who is a spirit). Such public displays of prayer (even within a church) let the “left hand know what the right hand is doing.” In other words, all know what you are saying and doing. Whereas Jesus said – if one chooses to listen to him:

      “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.” (Matthdew 6:5)

      One should never look for so-called loop-holes to counter and disobey Christ.

      Who told you that Saturday or Sunday is the Sabbath Day? Neither God or Christ did. 

      In Jesus’ day there were no such thing as S-M-T-W-TH-F-S. 

      Jesus Christ is the “Lord of the Sabbath” and the Sabbath Day is not a literal 24 hour day. It is the unfinished part of the seventh creative period (day) that God rested on. God rests on the seventh day and Jesus Christ will complete it. 

      After eacn of the six “creative days” God said “The evening and the morning … a first, second, third … sixth day. God has not made this statement concerning the seventh day. Why? Because we are still in the seventh day (time period).

      At Matthew Chapter 12, Jesus showed that the Sabbath is not a literal 24 hour day and a particular day of the week where we rest from working. God is resting in this seventh time period and His Son is entrusted in finishing it. (Matthew 4:34). As Christs disciples we do not rest or view any one day as a literal 24 Sabbath day. We join the Master in doing “the will of Him who sent Me and to finish His work.” Sadly, the Pharisees (who enforced the Law) fail to understand as many today do, that Jesus fulfilled the Law. So those who became his followers were no longer under the old 24 hour day sabbath observation. (Romans 6:14)

      It is truly astounding how so many claiming to follow Christ go out of their way to disobey him. They want to pray openly and in public and “together” with others. Jesus says:

      “But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”

      A group of people cannot fit in a closet. Additionally, Christ never prayed openly or in the presence of his disciples. He withdrew to a private place and prayed to the Father in private. Why would those who claim to follow him deviate from what he taught and practiced?

  11. GILMAR LANADA on

    OUT OF CONTEXT LOL.. WHAT JESUS MEANT IS WHEN YOU PRAY DO BE LIKE  hypocrites WHO PRAY BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE PRAISE BY MAN. THEY WANT TO IMPRESS MAN ON HOW THEY PRAY 

    IN THE BOOK ACTS THIER MANY VERSES THAT TELLS US THAT THE CHURCH PRAYS TOGETHER EVEN THE DISCIPLES 

     

    Acts 1:14

    They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.(NIV)

    Acts 4:23

    On their release, Peter and John went back to their own people and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said to them.(NIV)

     

    Acts 4:24

    When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.(NIV)

    Acts 12:5

    So Peter was kept in prison, but the church was earnestly praying to God for him.(NIV)

    Acts 12:12

    When this had dawned on him, he went to the house of Mary the mother of John, also called Mark, where many people had gathered and were praying.(NIV)

    STUDY THE WORD OF GOD WELL BROTHER, YOU ARE MISS LEADING PEOPLE

     

    • Nothing is out of context. Either, Jesus was lying (which is not the case) or these Bible translations have been twisted to make it appear that people prayed together. My challenge to you is to look at all the Bible translations and look up the Scriptures you mentioned and ask yourself, “Why none of the translations read the same?”

      We are to obey and follow Christ’s example, not the clever machinations of men who seek to lead us away from the true teaching of Christ. 

      It is either Christ or the world. The world insists on “public” prayer. Christ taught prayer is to be a “private” matter between the individual and their Creator. This is the example he set,

      Do not fear and obey men, fear God.

Leave A Reply