Are You Indoctrinated

The Merriam Webster Dictionary defines indoctrination in this way:

To imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle. defines indoctrination as:

Teaching someone to accept a set of beliefs without questioning them.

I think most would agree that these are reasonable and accepted definitions of indoctrination.

What prompted the writing of this article was a discussion I had with a Seventh Day Adventist the other day. A very pleasant fellow who was newly connverted to the religion. He possess a definite zeal for his newly found belief and I admire such zeal. I know from experience that new converts into any religious system possesses such zeal and as the years wax on, that zeal wanes. By that time, the person has already been indoctrinated.

The formative years – the first days one has made the decision to join a particular religious following to that day or year one is unaware that they have been indoctrinated – is what I find an interesting study; and something I wanted to address in this article. Ones indoctrination and being made aware of it is extremely important because at the end of the day the question we all must honestly ask ourselves is, “Am I really loyal to and accepting the teachings of Christ or am I loyal to and accepting the teachings of a particular religious organization and/or their founders or leadership?”

The gentleman I was in discussion with – an unbaptized Seventh Day Adventist – desires very badly to get baptized as a Seventh Day Adventist. I asked him why.

But, This Is What God Wants Me To Do?

The above title was his reason. Then I asked, “Who told you that God wants you to get baptized as a Seventh Day Adventist?” His response was that “The Bible” says that he must get baptized. My response to that was, “The Bible says you are supposed to get baptized as a Seventh Day Adventist? Please show me where this is written in the Bible?”

At this point, I could see the strain and stress on his face because he was stuck and really thinking about how to answer that question. Then he opened his mouth and spoke something truthful; he said:

My Church told be that I have to get baptized if I want to join the Church and become a Seventh Day Adventist.

Then I tactfully and delicately explained to him that it was not God or Christ or The Bible that “told you” that you have to get baptized as a Seventh Day Adventist, it was the church itself who “told you” that you must.

Now here is the interesting thing: Even after explaining this, he still felt a strong desire that he must get baptized so that he could join the church and become a Seventh Day Adventist. I asked him the following question and it formed the basis of the rest of our discussion:

Does it not matter to you what God and Christ say you must do?

Yes, It Matters Very Much To Me

The above was his response. “OK,” I said, “If what God and Christ say really matters to you, then would you accept what they say over and above what any human or human agency says?” He said, “Yes, I would accept what God and Christ say over what anyone says but my church teaches what God and Christ says.”

But my church teaches what God and Christ says.

I explained to him that there are more than 41,000 so-called contending Christian denominations who all say that, yet they all teach Christ differently from the others, so why would he believe that his church teaches what God and Christ says and the others do not? He admitted that he did not know and did not really think about it.

I asked him:

If I can show you that what is called Christian religious organizations are NOT loyal to God and Christ and DO NOT REALLY listen to them but instead listen to humans and human agencies, would he at least consider the possibility that someone or something is prodding him to become a member of a religious organization and follow behind what they say and teach rather than what God and Christ say we must do?

Because my colleague knows me as a reasonable person who is not trying to recruit or convert persons into any particular religious organizations teachings; not a person who discourages belief in God and Christ but one who DOES believe in them; and a person who believes all desiring to please God must come before the person of Christ and attach and join themselves to him – apart from joining man-made religious organizations – allowed me to show him.

Note: This person always approaches me with questions he has concerning things he has heard in the Seventh Day Adventist church. I can only assume the reason is that what he is thinking on the inside and afraid to openly question his church leaders about, he can ask me and I ALWAYS point him to what God and Christ – not the Bible – says about the matter. I also believe the reason that he approaches me privately is that I puzzle him. He even asked me once, “How can you have such deep belief, faith, and knowledge about God and Christ but do not belong to a church? I simply told him, that “I belong to Christ as his disciple. It is men who are telling you and millions of others that you must join them and make yourself a member of a church? Show me where Jesus told anyone to join a church? Rather we are to be members of Christ NOT members of religious organizations. (1Cor 6:15, John 8:31-32 and Matthew 28:19-20)

Look At Your Baptismal Vow

To help my colleague see that it is humans and human agency that is leading and luring him to join THEM and setting up requirements for him, I used the example of the baptismal vow that I took when I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I wanted him to see that all religious organizations claiming to be of God and Christ are more interested in getting persons to join THEM under some fancy name or title (in his case, Seventh Day Adventist) and adopting their particular set of beliefs, rather than one attaching themselves to and becoming members of Christ, a person, and accepting and adopting his teachings. (1 Cor 6:15)

I explained to my colleague that before I could become a Jehovah’s Witness and join that organization, I had to recite and accept the following baptismal vow. It is taken word for word from the June 1, 1985, Watchtower magazine, page 30:

On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

The second is:

Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?

Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism.

Notice the first part of the vow. It is a lure. The same type of lure Christ said would occur after his ascension back into heaven; that many would truthfully acknowledge that he is the Christ. It is the second part of the vow that speaks of membership to AND adopting the name and title of an organization. The membership is what is called God’s spirit-directed organization and the title one is given is Jehovah’s Witnesses. Notice that the baptismal vow does not mention the Holy Spirit. Cleverly inserted instead is God’s spirit-directed organization.

At Matthew 28:19-20  Jesus commanded:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

The vow all candidates must take to become Jehovah’s Witnesses is really an indoctrination into an organization that claims for itself to be God’s spirit-directed organization. No mention of the Holy Spirit in the vow. The vow is stating that unless one joins or attaches themselves (are in association with) to the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, they cannot be for God or a worshiper of God. Thus, what we have here is a human agency saying that it is “The Way” to the Father. Yet, Christ says that he alone is “The Way.” (John 14:6)

The vow says that one must be in association with the organization.

In association with means also blindly adopting and accepting EVERYTHING the organization says WITHOUT questioning it. Thus, before persons reach the decision stage to become baptized Jehovah’s Witnesses, they will have already been FULLY indoctrinated by the intensive study of the many Watch Tower publications (masqueraded as Bible Study). I know, as this was my experience and the thousands of Witnesses I have met in my more than 25 years as a baptized Jehovah’s Witness. Yet, today, most Jehovah’s Witnesses never consider the details of their vow (contract) and if they did, would not question it because they will have already been primed and indoctrinated not to. Any raising to them the information I have presented here would be automatically dismissed as an apostate by the Watch Tower organization and apostates are NOT to be listened to or associated with. They are to be considered as trouble makers. The labeling of others as an apostate is a clever mechanism The Watch Tower Organization uses to prevent its membership from hearing or learning something it does not want them to know. It is a way to control information. In fact, any Jehovah’s Witness caught associating with who THEY label as an apostate; caught reading what THEY call apostate literature; caught visiting what they call apostate websites; or questioning Watch Tower teaching, will face a certain disfellowshipment (kicked out of the organization) if they do not cease and desist and do not allow themselves to be readjusted (re-indoctrinated). This readjustment involves counseling from the organization’s Elders and/or a study of one or more of the Watch Tower publications. One is made to feel that if they question “The Organization” they are doubting God and Christ and questioning them too. Most Jehovah’s Witnesses are afraid to even “think” within themselves anything different from what the Watch Tower teaches them because “God knows what we are thinking.” That is what I call power and control of humans by human agencies.

For sure, there are former Jehovah’s Witnesses who got kicked out (disfellowshiped) because they violated some Watch Tower policy and who become bitter, angry and disgruntled and make it their life’s mission to get even with the Watch Tower Organization. (A waste of time as far as I am concerned). Many of them – when you speak to them – appear lost and mentally dysfunctional. The reason for this – I believe – is because they were indoctrinated to believe that “The Organization” was EVERYTHING and all else was “IN THE WORLD” and one did not want to be outside of the organization. Yet, once one finds themselves out of the organization, they do not know how to function or even think for themselves. It was all done for them when they were on the inside. Many former Jehovah’s Witnesses have great difficulty functioning outside the Watch Tower organization. Many are empty inside and act and react at the base emotional level of anger. If what the WatchTower had taught them were the truth and Christ’s teachings, then they would not react in the way that they do. It shows that Christ’s teachings were not there from the beginning; and, if they were, never reached below the surface.

Baptismal Vow of Seventh Day Adventist

My colleague thought it was a terrible thing that a religious organization – such as The Watch Tower – would make persons recite a vow and that vow leaves out the Holy Spirit. He also felt it a terrible thing that a religious organization would punish persons by disfellowshipment simply because they had questions. He assured me that that was not the way of Seventh Day Adventism.

I asked my colleague if he has ever seen the baptismal vow he would take. To my surprise, he had not. In fact, he was not aware that there was a vow. He said that when the church saw that he has corrected some issues within his personal life and gets his life staright,  the church would allow him to get baptized as a Seventh Day Adventist. (He still wasn’t getting it). He wanted to get baptized as a Seventh Day Adventist and he said that it was a matter of being immersed in water and that he was not aware of a vow.

I recall that when I was considering baptism as one of Jehgovah’s Witness, I was not told about a vow either. Just that I had to first study Watch Tower publications and learn what was in them and then get baptized as a Jehovah’s Witness.

I let my colleague know that all Seventh Day Adventist must recite and accept a written baptismal vow. I explained to him that I know this because many in my family are Seventh Day Adventist. The Seventh Day Adventist baptismal vow reads as follows:

In order to be baptized as a Seventh Day Adventist, a person must agree to this set of thirteen baptismal VOWS:

  1. I believe in God the Father, in His Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Spirit.
  2. I accept the death of Jesus Christ on Calvary as the atoning sacrifice for my sins, and believe that through faith in His shed blood I am saved from sin and its penalty.
  3. I renounce the world and its sinful ways, and have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, and believe that God, for Christ’s sake, has forgiven my sins and given me a new heart.
  4. I accept by faith the righteousness of Christ, recognizing Him as my Intercessor in the heavenly sanctuary, and claim His promise to strengthen me by His indwelling Sprit, so that I may receive power to do His will.
  5. I believe that the Bible is God’s inspired Word, and that it constitutes the only rule of faith and practice for the Christian.
  6. I accept the Ten Commandments as still binding upon Christians; and it is my purpose by the power of the indwelling Christ, to keep this law, including the fourth commandment, which requires the observance of the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath of the Lord.
  7. I look forward to the soon coming of Jesus as the blessed hope in my heart, and I am determined to be ready to meet the Lord, and to do all in my power to witness to His loving salvation, and by life and word to help others to be ready for His glorious appearing.
  8. I accept the Biblical teaching of spiritual gifts, and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the remnant church.
  9. I believe in church organization, and it is my purpose to support the church by my tithes and offerings, and by my personal effort and influence.
  10. I believe that my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, and I will honor God by caring for it, avoiding the use of that which is harmful, abstaining from all unclean foods, from the use, manufacture, or sale of alcoholic beverages, the use, manufacture, or sale of tobacco in any of its forms for human consumption, and from the misuse of or trafficking in, narcotics or other drugs.
  11. I know and understand the fundamental Bible principles as taught by the Seventh-day Adventist Church. It is my purpose, by the grace of God, to order my life in harmony with these principles.
  12. I accept the New Testament teaching of baptism by immersion, and desire to be so baptized as a public expression of faith in Christ and His forgiveness of my sins.
  13. I accept that the Seventh-day Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy, and that people of every nation, race, and language are invited and accepted into its fellowship. I desire to be a member in this local congregation of the world church.

I showed my colleague the Seventh Day Adventist vow and explained to him that there is something very wrong with it to. (I said this respectfully)

Vow #2 – Did Jesus say that those accepting him (his teachings) would save them (present tense)? Or did Jesus teach that salvation comes after a period of endurance and at the end? (Matthew 10:22)

Vow #5 – Who is the Word of God? The Bible or Christ? Should not Christ be the ONLY rule of faith? Why is Christ not stood up as the only rule of faith in this vow?

Vow #6 – Why are the 10 Commandments said to be still binding upon Christians? When were they ever binding? Who where the 10 Commandments given to? Christ did not exist when they were given, so how could there be followers upon which they would be binding? Why just 10 of the Commandments? The 10 Commandments were the first ten of a larger Law Covenant (agreement) between God and ancient Israel. How does one explain what Jesus said at Matthew 5:17.

Vow #8 – Does “The Bible” teach or does Christ teach? Who is our ONLY Teacher, a book or Christ? Why is the Bible held up as being what Christ ONLY is? (John 13:13 and Matthew 23:8-12)

Vow #9 – Believe in God and Christ, not in ANY organization.

Vow #11 – Again, the Bible is held up instead of Christ as Teacher and as something one is to believe in.

Vow #12 – Did Jesus say his followers were to be baptized in water? Do we see examples of Christ baptizing his followers with water? Do we see disciples of Christ baptizing others who would be disciples in water? What kind of baptism would Christ baptize his followers? (Matthew 3:11-12)

I could see my colleague visible distraught at what I was showing him. He appeared a little upset at me but know that it was misguided. He was bothered because his belief system – in which he felt safe and comfortable in –  was upset and being questioned. He could recede into a state of denial or even do all he could to forget that what I discussed with him, but he would not be able to. The truth cannot be wished away. It cuts deep like a long sharp two-edged sword.

The bottom line is that religious organization of all sorts has inserted itself and imposed itself between man and God and moved Christ out of the way. In his stead, it has introduced a book called the Bible that they place in a holy place and call The Word of God. 


Nothing Should Separate Christs Disciples Frrom God

The Apostle Paul said at Romans 8:38-39:

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,  neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The diagram shows an entity that presents a separation between man and God. It is religious organization; an enity that should not be there. This entity is gathering people into itself and giving them fancy sounding titles and names; titles and names neither God or Christ spoke of. This is all man’s doing. Not only that, they all teach that which Christ did not. In fact, many of those teachings go 180 degrees out of phase with what Christ did teach.

The indoctrination is heavy and its purpose is to take control and ownership of mankind. To be mankinds head and Master. Mankind, who Christ died for and therefore owns and is Master of. (1Cor 11:3)

Religious organization is a thief who came in undercover in the night and has stolen what does not belong to it and neither did it pay for (with its woen blood): Mankind.

To be fair, all of us are indoctrinated in some sense and to various degrees into something. May it be politcal, religious, or whatever.

The indoctrination I am referring to contained in the question: Is one loyal to religious organization and blindly adopts and accepts what it teaches or is one loyal to God and Christ and accept what they teach. Never should it be because a religious organization – no matter how large or popular – says it is of God and Christ means that it is true.

A tell-tale indicator that they are not is that they tell persons what one MUST do in order to join THEM and to be called by the fancy names and titles THEY have created.

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R. Jerome Harris

No one of importance. A disciple (student) of Christ apart from the established religious systems who reasons, thinks and concludes matters for myself. Something is not right with the state of religion in the world. The real dichotomy is that we live in a world so full of religion, yet is an evil, immoral, and dangerous place to live. A mental and spiritual separation from this world that Jesus said his kingdom is no part of is the first step to a "break-through" to freedom and entry into a much larger spiritual world where God and Christ resides and the wisdom, knowledge, and understanding of God can be accessed.

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  1. Very nice, I just wrote something similar and want to share it with you. I was looking if someone have that same point of view. Here it is: 

    As we approach the end of times we need to pay much closer attention to the details and to some of the mistakes introduced by Satan in the 7th Day Adventist Church. Same mistakes were introduced in the first years of Christianity, mixing the core of Paganism with Christianity which drove humanity to a long period of dark age instead of of light age as supposed to be, same thing we need to be aware that this will happen to our Church close to the end of times. What I want to talk is one of the main deceptions introduced by Satan to our 7th Day Adventist Church today and it was introduced by a General Conference in the year 1980.
    But before we get to that let me give you the background, so you can understand what we gonna be talking here. 
    Last year ( 2014) it call my attention that over 3000 souls were ready to baptise ( in a country in Central America) but only 2000 made it to the baptismal waters. Why? You might ask yourself that, right? I did… Let me explain what happened, on the grounds that they were not formally married many of them that were living together as a couple for years and most of them also with children were denied baptism because they were not legally married.
    The reason this call my attention was basically because at that time looking in the scriptures I couldn't find anyone's baptism being denied or delayed, after someone accepted Jesus he was baptize. To wait for him to go and change his life first, that's not Biblical and will never be. I repeat this, if you read the entire new testament you will find not a single example that baptism was delayed or cancel to wait for someone to change their lifestyle, in the Bible you will actually find the sense of a rush to get everyone baptize after they had embraced the truth that is in the sole salvation by the blood of Jesus. So, the question is why we are doing this? What would be the purpose for it? At that time I remember that it came to my mind the words of Paul about how the church should establish elders: "to be married to just one woman" and this was telling me that the first Christians who were part of the church some of them were married, other where not married and other married to several women…. Back in the Apostles times you were baptize if you accepted Christ as your savior. Are you guys seeing a contrast here?! 
    At that time it also cross my mind and I remember saying to myself: "well, it has to be some sort of organizational system used by the Church to achieve some kind of uniformity…" That is exactly what cross my mind and I left this in the freezer for a while, I left it hanging with pins on my head the same way I do when I read the scripture and I don't completely understand something, but surely want to come back later and will be ready to any time when new light or understanding come to me to, review it.
    Months passed and I started to connect other things associated with this subject, some stories I was hearing about people who had accepted Jesus who were being denied baptism on the ground of church dress codes or hair style, etc. If they wanted to be Baptize in the 7th Adventist Church there was no other option but to comply in this rules, if they don't comply with the rules they will not be baptize and this was pretty clear as I hear people saying they can choose to go and get baptize on some other church…. Nobody wants them here type of attitude from our leaders was constant and if they are true believers they will do everything to change as Christ want them to be…. I remember a personal case that happened back in my home country before I came to the USA, I was around 19 years of age and after finishing the round of Bible studies that I was giving to this man who was close to 70 years old, I remember the pastor came with me to visit him while I was trying to make arrangements for Baptism but to my surprise the pastor told the man that if he wanted to be baptize he had to stop drinking "Mate" tea ( a south american tea that contains caffeine but in a very small amount}. 
    You might ask yourself, "what this have to do with any big deception? It is clear the pastor might be wrong and it was a personal mistake… " More if you also knew that many pastors also drink that tea in Uruguay… but the problem here is not the tea, the problem is that baptism was denied to a person that had accepted Christ and God was saving that person. But by the sole ground of human interpretation of what is right or wrong this person was being denied baptism, and this is when it hit me… Do Baptism really mean that we need to change something to accept Jesus? Or isn't this way of approaching baptism one of the biggest contradiction to the Gospel?! This questions started playing in my head that somehow the 7th day Adventists pastors and members were probably being taken to believe that baptize it is not a ceremony to follow Christ and be guided by the Holy Spirit but to follow a Church, to be part of the 7th Day Adventist Church and keep a set of true but man made doctrines leaving the Holy Spirit to perform the miracle of spiritual change as a secondary helper… It was clear to me that we might be against to one of the best Satanic deceptions that we are carrying around!!! And I will try to explain why.

    So, to me it all came down to the 1980 Conference that introduced one of the biggest deceptions in our Church, the creation of the 27 doctrines of the 7th Day Adventist Church, that later in 2005 were modified to be 28 doctrines total as they stand today.
    How this 28 points of beliefs that I concord and accept as truths can be used as a spiritual deception? They are a deception not for what they stand but in the way they are being used…. Before you rule this out let me explain you something else, I been in several baptisms in my life since I was born in a 7th day Adventist family, pretty much most of my family members from my Dad to my Mom, uncles and cousins same as me we mostly share the same faith as it is understood under the 7th day Adventist faith so as I said I been in several baptisms to see with my own eyes that the 28 points of doctrines were always read before baptism, and not only that, each "Bible Study" before baptism that we generally give to new members they need to be signed by them after completion and all members willing to be baptize, each one basically need to be 100 % indoctrinated and sure of this 28 points of beliefs. The pastor will read them to them before baptism and he will only accept a positive confirmation from you even though you might not even had enough time to investigate all of them. All you have to do is accept them as they are the truth, all this if you want to be a member of the SDA Church and it is clear to me that the main reason for baptize it is being left as secondary, that is to be born again in a new life in Christ with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, because if anyone does not comply with the indoctrination process it is guarantee they will not be baptize…. this is the truth in every church this days.
    We have to understand what deception is and why it have much to do with "brain washing" in religion, brain washing consist in the repetition of something that over time we believe as the truth but we can not understand why or probe it with the Bible…" Remember that Satan it's in the details and deception can not be achieved if it wasn't embedded very inside the truth.
    When I first started gathering information and putting it together something started to feel not right and every time I grabbed the scripture there was a big question mark about this baptismal practices of indoctrination in our Church. Also it came to my mind the need to know for example why is it that somebody had to be baptize twice if he had accepted Jesus the first time? Non of this was bound in the Scripture and it make sense to me that Baptism for most 7th day Adventist pastors have a different meaning than accepting Jesus and be born again, the real meaning and truth embedded in this deception is that they try to tell you that you have to follow the Church and then you can follow Christ or you have to follow the 28 point of doctrines and then let the Holy Spirit shape you the way God wants you, the way the human tradition wants comes before the Holy Spirit!!! Basically it is a big error to make us take care of the exterior first and not the interior, more if we are talking about entering in the spiritual world and working in our spiritual self to achieve salvation.
    The Bible teach us that when we accept Jesus yes we should be baptize. It does not tell us or give us one example in the Bible about somebody being denied Baptism because a sinful situation in life…. The scripture tell us that the address and care of sinful behaviors in the church comes later with love and prayers from the members very long after baptism and that we should not judge others as it is one of the biggest problems in the primitive church…. This truth hit me when I understood that most 7th day Adventist are asked to be indoctrinated before being baptize, and what really this means for us?! Basically, it means essentially that you are being Baptize to be a 7th day Adventist and to follow the 28 doctrines of the Church instead to first follow Jesus and let the Holly Spirit guide you and transform you… This strike me not as a small deception from Satan, and I will explain why: When we accept Christ we are bond with the Holy Spirit to guide us to atonement with the Father and not with the Church! This big deception starts first with a lack of faith in the Holy Spirit ( God), the one send by Jesus to instruct us to the truth.. this mistake of indoctrination it is carried by the organization of the 7th day Adventist Church. Probably with the only objective to create "uniformity in believers" they strip them from the power of God transforming them not in spiritual beings or thinking ones…. In most cases the guidance of the Holy Spirit is left out to follow 28 doctrines and follow a Church instead of following Christ and his Cross.
    I will repeat myself, it is a big deception to be Baptize not to Christ but to a Church and not to be guide by the Holy Spirit but to follow doctrines written in paper by men, doctrines that can not affect our hearts and change it to prepare it for the second coming of Jesus…
    Let's check in history for some information:

    Adventists have historically been reluctant to formalize a creed. In the October 8, 1861 Review and Herald, J. N. Loughborough wrote:

    The first step of apostasy is to get up a creed, telling us what we shall believe. The second is, to make that creed a test of fellowship. The third is to try members by that creed. The fourth to denounce as heretics those who do not believe that creed. And fifth, to commence persecution against such."[6]

    In spite of this reluctance several summaries of Adventist theology have been presented at various latter times.

    In 1872, a pamphlet was produced presenting twenty-five Fundamental Principles.[7] not to "secure uniformity" but "to meet inquiries" and "to correct false statements."[8]
    In 1931, a list of 22 Fundamental Beliefs[9] was produced and published in the Adventist Yearbook, and subsequently in the Adventist Church Manual.
    In 1980, the 27 Fundamentals were instituted by the denomination's General Conference. They are expanded upon in the book Seventh-day Adventists Believe: A Biblical Exposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines.[10] Note that this elaboration does not constitute the "official" position of the church.
    Fritz Guy was the secretary of the original committee which produced the 27 Fundamentals. They were discussed and adopted at the 1980 General Conference Session. Ron Graybill wrote the preamble.[11]

    In 2005, another belief was inserted, fundamental belief number 11 "Growing in Christ", in response to the requests of Adventists in developing nations for a statement on spiritual warfare. It was voted in at the 2005 Adventist General Conference Session held in St. Louis, Missouri, yielding the current total of 28.

    Conclusion: As we are heading to the end of times we have to look around and identify deception. We need to pay close attention because "Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour." ( 1 Peter 5:8) DON'T FOLLOW A CHURCH AND DOCTRINES, FOLLOW JESUS AND BE GUIDE BY HIS SPIRIT. GOD BLESS!!

    I have more information regarding this, I tried to make it short so people can read is on social media, so people will investigate by themselves. Remember to investigate because the truth sets you free and there is lots of lies and deceptions holding us back.

    1. Interesting. I appreciate the post.

      I wanted to add that I do not subscribe to what the religious system called by men – Christianity – teach about the end times or the last days. Based on what Christ taught at Matthew 10:22 we are no where near to the end times because he said that his followers would be hated by ALL PEOPLE. All Christians are NOT hated by EVERYONE. In fact, many many Christians around the world hate each other for political and religious teaching differences (Catholics and Protestants in Ireland) and the more than 41000 contending so-called Christian denominations who claim they are all teaching Christ truthfully but who all have DIFFERENT teachings about him DO NOT like one another because of those differences in teachings.

      Also based on the “Revelation by Jesus Christ that God Gave Him” we are not in the end times. (Rev 1:1)

      A careful and thorough reading of Christs Revelation (it is not a revelation by John as some try to make it), reveals that there is a future time period that must pass over the earth. This time period is the one AFTER Christs 1000 year Kingdom over the earth will have ended and Satan is released from the Abyss. (Rev 20:7)

      This time period is an unspecified period of time but it appears that it could last for hundreds of years. It is a time period where Satan supplants on top of the kingdom (paradise) Christ leaves behind on earth, his own kingdom or throne called symbolically “The Wild Beast”. The Wild Beast is a “Throne” that will exist over the earth in those future days after Christs kingdom will have ended. That the Wild Beast is a throne can be seen at Revelation 13:2. (Notice what The Dragon gives the Beast: It’s power, it’s throne and his authority). Also see Rev 2:13

      The end times Christ spoke of as coming, BEGINS when his future kingdom of 1000 years ends and Satan is released from the Abyss and he brings up with him his Wild Beast and establishes on the earth in those future days.

      The “Revelation by Jesus Christ that God gave him” is a warning and a detailed chronicle about that time period after Christ kingdom ends. It has nothing to do with our time period today or any in the past.

      This means that – at present – that there is no 666, no Wild Beast from the sea, no Wild Beast out of the earth (False Prophet), no scarlet colored wild beast, no 144000, no remnant of 144000, etc. They are yet to arrive and are more than 1000 years away!

      This also means that we are no where near the end times. We exist in a time period called the “Appointed Times of the Nations.” This is a “hands-off” time period by God and Christ to allow mankind to do as they please. It will prove that mankind does not have it in him to lead one another or to determine what is right and wrong. We have screwed up royally and are without excuse. It proves Satan a liar. Satan declared that mankind CAN know good and evil. Sadly, many among mankind think the bad things they do are “good” and the good things they do are “evil.”

      The execution of Christ confirmed this: Many thought his execution was a “good” thing. Yet, Christ knew that those who persecuted and executed him did not know “good from bad” and did not know what they were doing so he asked the Father to forgive them. (Luke 23:34)

      The execution of Christ placed the world in what is called the “Appointed Times of the Nations;” a fumbling around in the dark and not knowing what we are doing.

      The religious systems on the earth are feeble man-made attempts to make sense of the world. Yet, they have only served to divide mankind and alienate them from the God and His Messiah (who is the truth).

      Since the world is alienated from God and Christ, the truth does not exist within any religious system or organization or so-called holy book. It can only exist in Christ: The one God commanded we listen to. (Luke 9:35)


      1. Yeah, thank you for your reply but seems you got stack explaining soming that has nothing to do with what I wrote. Anyhow Jesus expained the times before his second coming and how people will be and act and the events that will follow I think we are in this times. Rod.

        1. Jesus never said the events of today are associated with his return. He said there would be ONE SIGN and MANY SIGNS. (Matthew 24:30)

          It is religious organizations who are saying that the events (plural) are indicators that we are in the last days, NOT Jesus.

          The last times have nothing to do with our time period, but rather a very distant time period more than 1000 years ahead of us.

          The last times are NOT associated with Jesus’ return, but the end of the world and rule my humans.

          In other words, when Christ returns, “a” world will have ended, but two more worlds MUST follow. The Chronology is as follows:

          1. The existing world: The world we know today will end. 
          2. The next world: Christ sets up his 1000 year rule (kingdom) over the earth. Christ rule over the earth will last for 1000 years and it MUST end. (Rev 20:6-7)
          3. The next world: Satan sets up a Wild Beast Throne over the earth. We do not know how long it will last. It could be for hundreds of years. The last times are associated with the END OF THIS WILD BEAST throne NOT Jesus’ second return. (Rev 20:8, Rev 13:2, and Rev 2:13)
          4. The last world: Will be God’s Kindgom. It will come down to the earth and never end. (Matthew 6:9-10 and Rev Chapter 21)

          If you believe we are in the last times then you would have to show where Christs kingdom of 1000 years came and went, when Satan was released from the Abyss and set up his kingdom and show it ending. This things have not been fulfilled yet.

          The events Jesus mentioned in Matthew 24:3-8 he said was not about the end. He said, “but the end is not yet.”

          Notice very carefully what Jesus said at Matthew 24:7: He said that “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom.” Jesus did not say nations and kingdoms (plural) will rise against other. He said nation and kingdom (that is, one nation and one kingdom) will.

          So this tells us that this is a future time period when the earth will be one nation of people and under one kingdom. (That time period is not now because their are MANY nations and kingdoms pitted against one another).

          The belief that we are in the end times comes from religious organizations, not Christ.



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